2010年11月16日 星期二

【號外】米其林芝加哥指南公佈,Alinea與L2O三星! (不斷更新後續消息中)

http://chicago.eater.com/archives/2010/11/16/michelin-guide-revealed-alinea-l20-get-3-stars.php#more


http://chicago.eater.com/archives/2010/11/16/michelin-director-jeanluc-naret-on-the-michelin-stars.php  (Jean Luc-Naret 的訪談,或許晚點有空來翻譯一下)


http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/michelin-stars-come-out-for-chicago-a-day-early/#more-40597  事實上名單在週一已經在yelp上外洩了,於是米其林決定提前一天公佈,史上另一次類似的事件是2004年的法國指南,書(在揭曉前會先封好送到各書店)在科西嘉島一間書店提早一週上架。

At the top with three stars: Alinea, chef Grant Achatz and business partner Nick Kokonas' highly lauded molecular gastronomic restaurant. But another surprise was the announcement that L20, despite its celebrated chef Laurent Gras exiting two weeks ago, also received three stars.

Avenues, Charlie Trotter's and Ria all nabbed two stars and 18 additional restaurants, including Blackbird, Boka, NAHA, Longman & Eagle and Spiaggia, got one star each.

Here's the full list:

***
Alinea
L20

**
Avenues
Charlie Trotter's
Ria

*
Blackbird
Boka
Bonsoirée
Crofton on Wells
Everest
graham elliot
Longman & Eagle
NAHA
NoMI
Schwa
Seasons
Sepia
Sixteen
Spiaggia
Takashi
Topolobampo
Tru
Vie

18 則留言:

Rich 提到...

很高興 L2O 能榮獲 3 星. 可惜該餐廳主廚 Laurent Gras 決定離開該 L2O 倒紐約發展. 不知道 L2O 明年是否還能維持 3 星.

芝加哥首次的米其林評鑑驚喜是有兩個三星. 但是2星,1星與本人當初預測有出入. 似乎比紐約的 guide 還要嚴苛. 不過我想這大概是米其林的一貫作法吧 - 慢慢加餐廳, 明年才會再有人買新出版的 guide.

becco 提到...

原來Laurent Gras要去紐約發展…真是太棒了呀!那之前還有人在猜他會不會回芝加哥豈不是搞錯方向了?

不過這讓我少了一個機會去芝加哥玩就是了,不曉得接手的主廚如何。

我真好奇Charlie Trotter現在的心情是怎樣。

芝加哥的餐廳我所知有限,是不是比紐約嚴苛我敢說,但不可否認的是紐約很多家一星給的很奇怪,最常被人拿出來譙的就是Spotted pig和rong tiam,加上SP的姐妹店 也拿一星了,不曉得Batali會不會更火。

Spotted pig這種gastropub很受紐約米其林的青睞,大概有三四家拿了一星了吧,我只去過SP,那裡晚上的用餐環境實在令我無法恭維,菜肴口味也還好,只覺得下手很重,不過這期New Yorker剛好有講他們,讓我又想回去再給他一次機會 http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11/22/101122fa_fact_collins

Rich 提到...

Spotted Pig 我沒有去過. 但是只要餐飲到位, 服務 okay, 我其實不排斥 gastrobub 摘星. 芝加哥的 Longman & Eagle (一星)也是個 gastropub.

Laurent Gras 的妻小這兩年來一直是住在紐約. 所以他想回紐約也是在所難免. 他在芝加哥是與其 financial partner 起衝突. 據說是老闆想引進日本的 recipe 來改進 LG 知名的涮涮鍋, 而 LG 不願 financial partner 干預餐廳料理部分 - 因而關係破裂.

紐約讓我不能理解的米其林星有: (1)Le Bernadin - 水準不錯, 但是跟紐約其餘三星餐廳, 及與芝加哥三星餐廳相比, 不在一個等級上; (2) Momofuku Ko 的 2星 - 整個 Momofuku 帝國在紐約的流行都讓我無法了解; (3) Peter Lugers - 牛排品質好, cooked correctly to order, 但是乾熟過久, 牛味重到出苦. Butter finish 極膩口, 沒有那個佐餐番茄醬是無法吃超過兩口的. 倒是他家的 cheesecake 讓我比較印象深刻. 而且 PL 的服務極差, 得星讓我實在無法茍同. 難道是屈服於其名聲? (4) Rouge Tomate - 其實味道挺不錯的, cocktails 也很有創意. 但是跟他 level 一樣而無摘星的 market-driven 餐廳, 在芝加哥我可以列 10 個以上. 唉, 看看以後發展如何喽.

不要因為 LG 的離去而少了來芝加哥的動機. 下次來介紹你去些咱其他的 local favorites!

becco 提到...

Rich,

米其林總是有令人難以索解的地方,進軍美國、日本、香港之後更是如此,也不足為奇了。

Spottedpig在我唯一一次的經驗中,和你留言開頭的標準相去甚遠,食物或許還算到位,但其他就普通了。我覺得這是一個 consistency而未必是標準高低何在的問題,否則Babbo這樣的餐廳難道就無法在同一標準下拿星嗎? 我想這是Mario Batali不爽的地方。紐約另兩家拿一星的Gastropub是Minetta Tavern以及 The Breslin,不曉得又是如何。

Le Bernardin我去過兩次都是吃午餐,的確沒有讓人完全傾倒的感受,但我還是會想去試一下晚上的。另外,我以為亞洲人和歐美人士對海鮮的標準有所不同,或許對他們來說那樣的海鮮已經"值得專程前往"了,但對我來說,可能東北角的老船長海鮮還更讓我想專程開一趟去哩。何況,你們在芝加哥很幸運,那兩家三星(或至少Alinea)都是屬於(在美國境內)奇峰陡起形的三星,所以拿Le Bernardin來比對這家海產店太苛了 :)

PL在紐約拿一星我沒有什麼反對的理由,不過大家都說他服務不佳,不曉得是不是oba 就布魯克林店而言,我大多去長島的那間,服務很ok啊。

Momofuku 帝國的確令人側目,我是沒吃過,舍妹吃了他們賣拉麵的,據說比一風堂還差,不過拿二星的那家我還沒有認識的人去過,只是看了詹醫師的形容,會滿想去吃的 http://blog.xuite.net/charl/stars/26225852

下週David Chang要來演講,被你這樣一提,來去聽聽看好了

Rich 提到...

恩, PL 拿下星星的是布魯克林區的那家. 我去了兩次, 其實 waiter 服務 okay, 但是帶位的經理兩次態度都極度差勁. 對難得去紐約的我來講, 應該是不會再次去受氣了.

Le Bernardin 的理念事實上是很好的 - 簡單料理, 展現食材原本風味. 其實我很喜歡他家的食物. 問題是出於比較, it was good, but not as memorable. Daniel 還是 2 星的時候我就覺得他比 Le Bernardin 好了. Jean George's 午餐也讓我留下比 Le Bernardin 晚餐好的回憶. 也許是個人口味問題, 或者是 it was off night when I went. 期待你回去晚餐後的心得喽.

Momofuku Ko 其實我本身沒去過, 不過同你一樣唸了不少部落格文章. 不過就我對 Noodle Bar 及 Ssam Bar 的經驗, David Chang 的廚藝吸引不了我的味蕾. 其所謂的拉麵, 不用說一風堂了, 隨便到 Midtown 或 East Village 的居酒屋的拉麵都勝過他. 還有那個 pork belly dish 其實就是台灣割包的概念改成北京烤鴨醬汁. 不知道為何老美能高潮成那樣. 我覺得台式割包的味道及口感都好多了...

我還沒去過 Babbo. 不過就別人的 blogs, Babbo 除了 pasta 以外, 料理穩定度在近年來有走下坡的趨勢. 不知您見解如何. 米其林對義大利料理本來就非常嚴苛, 連義大利本身的三星餐廳中還是法國料理佔上風. 紐約能有那麼多星級義大利餐廳已經相當難得了 (相對, 芝加哥只有 Spiaggia 獲得1星). 下次有機會去紐約我會選個星級義大利餐廳試試看.

Rich 提到...

Thought you might be interested in this link about Laurent Gras going to NYC:

http://chicago.eater.com/archives/2010/11/17/laurent-gras-talks-l20-michelin-and-future-nyc-plans.php

becco 提到...

awesome! thanks!

becco 提到...

張大衛的pork belly的確讓台灣人覺得很鳥,不過韓國人嘛,你也知道的。

前陣子好像有開一家bauhaus,是台裔人開的割包店,生意不錯,這老闆後來又開了一家叫"宵夜"的店,不曉得如何。

我倒是很意外你對JG的評價,而且是午餐,竟比LB的晚餐還高,我還沒去過,舍妹早年去過一次,不欣賞,我陸續看過一些人的用餐經驗,光照片就無法吸引我了,當然那可能很不準。我不知為何對他一直有成見,感覺是個賣弄亞洲情調的混搭廚師,屬於比較不令人尊敬的那一型 fusion…最近看了掛他名字在台北推出的所謂米其林三星早餐,我只能說媽媽咪呀。

嗯,總之呢我想要去LB老老實實吃一次晚餐,不是商業午餐也不是採訪,或許等我愛吃海鮮的爸媽來時吧。

另外事實上呢,我還沒去過Babbo,他實在太難訂了,我來美國迄今未曾成功過,堪稱紐約最神祕的地方(對我來說)。我只是從側面觀察,以為他應該值得一星,但照你所言,或許米其林這次是對的。

我倒不覺得美國米其林對義大利菜特別嚴,如果考慮到義大利的好餐廳(Ristorante),多數美國的義大利餐廳真的只是介乎Ristorante和Trattoria之間而已,了不起就是食材好,功夫紮實,口味夠正宗沒有被廚房裡的墨西哥廚子們牽著走而已。法國菜的距離倒似手小一些,至少你可以找到算是接近的。

我知道有些例外,像是Michael White的Alto或Convivio、Marea,但多數菜單翻開,都是你預期得到的味道的菜,或說,把麵搞得那麼豪華他還是麵啊,哪怕是Batali最引為自豪、紐約時報讚不絕口的Del Posto也是如此。那眼界、創意、思考離義大利境內的菜,實在還有一個無形的鴻溝在,或者套句村上的話,不知為何開車一入義大利境內,麵就變得好吃很多。

我很想去吃Alto或Marea,但不會把他當成義大利菜來吃,免得心裡怪怪的,在美國吃飯不能太拘泥,才快樂得起來。

Rich再來紐約可吃的太多了,義大利菜的話,除了前面提到的,我覺得Maialino和A Voce 都不錯,Long island city的Testaccio 我吃了一次他的早午餐,也是好的令我意外,至少味道純正。

Rich 提到...

恩, 宵夜我聽過. 不過看了他的 menu 後覺得有點無語. 不過還蠻想去 Baohaus 的. 不做作的小吃觀念還蠻讓人期待的. 到 East Village 的話, 買個割包, 黑松沙士, 再到 Otakfuku 買個大阪燒,章魚燒. 人生也不過如此麼.

我去 JG 之前也念了不少其負面評價. 但是想說反正才 $26. 難吃也不會太心疼. 結果三道菜裡面有兩道菜是擊中的! JG 的食物絕對不無聊, 味道鮮明 (the flavors will punch you in the face! 像高級的 Obao). 故喜惡兩極. it worked for me. 我也不覺得其東方 fusion 矯情 (unlike Charlie Trotter - whose Asian fusion I cannot stand). 我想, 不喜歡的人即使覺得他不夠 balanced or 味道不合口味, 也不會忘記其料理. 相反的, LB 很平淡, 導致一年後的今天我不記得我當日吃了啥. 差別在這. 而非 LB 不好吃.

下次到紐約, 以星級義大利餐廳來講, 我會想嘗試 A Voce 或 Del Posto. 兩者菜單看起來都不錯, 尤其後者最近受到 NYT 那個文謅謅的新食評的青睞. Michael White 是 Spiaggia 出來的. 菜單看起來差不多, 但是超貴(尤其 Marea). 我讓你先去打前鋒吧. 呵呵.

不過我到紐約吃最多的還是道地的家常日本料理 - 這是咱芝加哥極缺乏的! Riki 及Sakagura 是我必報到的地方!

Starberry 提到...

Becco,

Sorry for the slow response. Had been quite busy, but also at the same time had to put some effort into putting my thought into a coherent way.

Last time we were talking about the merits of "public opinion" vs. "expert opinion". It's something I have been trying to have a coherent opinion on for a while, and really want to thank this conversation for pushing me to think it through.

I think the big difference in something like food vs. music is that in food there is a barrier to entry in terms of cost, and that's why expert opinions are valuable.

In music, anyone can download a song from iTunes for $0.99, allowing everyone the experience to properly try and experience anything. This is why people don't put much value to what music critics say, because everyone is able to enjoy the same experience. Therefore, in things like music, a layman is able to develop an opinion as valid as an expert.

However, in terms of food, it is easy to have "not fully developed" or "unknowledgable" opinions because of a lack of experience. One might falsely think uni is bad, because they never really had a chance to try good uni. This is where an expert is helpful, because they have had the opportunity to fully develop an opinion based on experience and in depth knowledge.

Food is very subjective, but at some point I agree that people need to put down their pride and admit that they don't have the experience to have a valid opinion on certain foods and restaurants. People don't have to blindly follow the opinions of the experts, but they must be willing to admit that the experts likely have a more thoughtful opinion on the subject because they have had more experience through comparing and tasting the foods.

It's like, people don't have to agree with the Michelin guide, but there is probably a good reason for certain places to be listed.

Have a separate comment on "ethnic" or "fusion" places... let me split that into a separate posting.

Cheers,

W

Starberry 提到...

Becco,

Seeing your and Rich's discussion on ethnic food touched a subject that has taken me a while to reconcile.

I agree that Shao Yeh is not great, but Baohause is definitely worth a try. (Yelp agrees too!!!)

When eating ethnic food in a foreign country, in the end I find it's very important not to compare it to the original version. Throw away the perception of what I feel the dish should be, and simply just think of it as if it's a dish I like.

Chicken tikka marsala is an Europeanized curry, not too spicy etc, and now it's actually the most popular curry and has been reverse imported back to India. Is it "real" curry in a strict tradition Indian sense? No, not really. Is it good? Of course.

Lastly, as for Momofuku.... well, I think most people agree it's not thhhhat good. Only 3.5 stars on Yelp. It's probably something that is better received in the press compared to the actual customers.

Cheers,

W

Rich 提到...
作者已經移除這則留言。
Rich 提到...

Mr. W

On the foodie critics v. average Joe scenario - I agree that many food critics and prolific online food bloggers have far more superior experience in fine dining than most others. However, as you mentioned - savoring food is very subjective, and acquired tastes work in mysterious ways.

A particular well known UK food blogger writes in numerous occasions that he personally cannot see how any sushi chef can earn a Michelin 3-star. In other words, in his mind, if you are not heating up the protein, you are not worthy of that high honor as a chef. His criticism of the Michelin-starred restaurants in HK, similarly, seems to be heavily influenced by his limited exposure to Chinese food in London. That is not to say that he doesn't have a valid point of view - it's just that as an average Joe, I don't really need to buy into his bias as authority.

Many American foodies I know can learn to eat or even appreciate offal; but many can never see why the "gelatinous" texture (像豬腳, 海參, 海蜇皮...) is so adored by Chinese foodies, and many will laugh at the concept of umami or fatty but not greasy (肥而不膩).

Another example is the new found obsession of many western food critics / bloggers - simple preparation and seasoning, let the product speak for itself. While that is a fine philosophy in many instances, that is not the only dogma in the world. There are many cuisines in the world that operate on the opposite end of the spectrum - e.g. Southern Indian, Sichuan, Hunan, traditional French, traditional Shanghai... For people in those regions, balance of heavy spices or sauces may trump the original flavor of the protein alone. When I read the Chicago Michelin guide, however, I find that the guide fails to identify some of these nuances when appropriate.

Rich 提到...

As to the attitude of eating ethnic food in the US, I have learned to like the American version in an approach slightly different from yours.

I can actually enjoy Panda Express now, and once in a blue moon I will be willing to eat maki with tempura shrimp or avocado in it. But in my mind, they are American/fusion, not Chinese or Japanese. Ethnic food for me means memory (當我們家第一次自己在芝加哥組裝豬血糕, with the right sauce, 花生粉, 香菜, 吃到嘴裡一家四口都快哭了!).

I can enjoy Panda Express thinking that it's American or fusion. But I'd be damned if I should lower my expectation of what authentic Chinese food means to me.

Chicken tikka masala is widely accepted by Indians in the UK and US, and many would order it in restaurants or even make it at home. But most of my Indian friends think of it as fusion food rather than Indian food; in fact, many call it the "national dish of Britain."

唉, 也難怪我這麼苦命, 每次到紐約就猛吃日本料理, 呵呵.

becco 提到...

放個假回來看到Rich和Wilson的精采討論,忍不住也來湊一腳。

身為一個average Joe, 對yelp之類論壇的依賴,我只侷限於客觀事實的部份,例如地址、電話、停車難易或者這家店是否還開著,這是每年一本的指南所不能即時反應的。進一步說,像是侍者的態度好不好,動作快還是慢,以及環境衛生這類不太牽涉到個人價值觀或者說不需要什麼參考背景(我想任何人看到一隻老鼠,應該都會說那是一隻老鼠)的判斷,也是會看的。

至於其他,我就略過了,因為yelp上連圖片品質都欠佳,我都是上blog去看的,而大部份,無論國內外,也只看圖而已。

不是很重視意見或評論這部份的原因在於,今天,只要經過有技巧的取樣,連聖經都可以找出預測黛妃身亡的"密碼",那麼當一個餐廳的entry有兩三百人貢獻其意見時,大概整個好惡的光譜應該都被照顧到了吧?這樣一來我要相信誰呢?平均值,也就是最後那幾個星的結論嗎?好像也只能這樣,但是這種平均往往就把許多有意義的signal給average out了,這種盲點不是沒有可能。而那些反倒不是我願意錯過的。

再者,我其實滿好奇有多少人會花時間去看yelp下面的留言,尤其是有一兩百篇的時候。這個時代每個人都有發聲的機會,講的好聽是"眾聲喧嘩",講的苛刻就只是人人貢獻his own share of white noise而已,如果每個人的意見都一樣重要,看一個與看一百個的差別何在?或者,我又何必去看那剩下的99個呢?至少我自己的耐心與時間實在不允許我看以去並且引為指引。

當我查完必要的資訊之後,如果還想知道opinion或comment,我寧可仰賴少數與其說我信得過,還不如說我已經了解其好惡與背景的朋友或Blog,加上好的指南與報紙(只限國外報紙)。

當然這就把我們帶向Rich在留言裡提到的問題:誰的意見,哪怕是"專家",才足堪參考呢?

晚點再聊

Rich 提到...

才在聊到他的, 就看到宵夜關店的消息...
http://ny.eater.com/archives/2010/11/after_sla_crackdown_xiao_ye_shutters_for_good.php

becco 提到...

哇塞…

becco 提到...

一直想回頭來完成留言,可是上下看了幾次,發現說穿了一切只有一句話:因材受教

不要找不吃生食的人推薦握壽司,不要問怕辣的人哪家川菜夠味,不要相信吃了一輩煨麵的人力挺的pasta…

這樣的原則,微觀地適用於各種類食物或料理,也巨觀、總合地適用於指南或餐廳評鑑的可信度上。

說到底,在某個程度以上,我對於某個餐廳或廚師是否受大家喜愛的關注,是遠低於他在某一個內在邏輯或價值判準---如果這東西存在的話---裡的位置的好奇的。

假設一個人相信有這樣一個內在邏輯存在的話---哪怕他的定義與真實面貌難免模糊不清---那麼ethnic food的忠奸之辯,或說道地或因地制宜性,這個問題就比較好理解了。

我一方面知道"人離鄉賤、物理鄉貴" 的道理,另一方面這個貴與賤應該只侷限在價格,而不是我們對某種食物應該具有的味道的堅持身上。

Panda express能不能吃是一回事(說真的我還滿懷念的,我們學校food court要是有不曉得該有多好,對我來說至少比subway好吃),但硬要說他是不是中國菜其實沒必要,他就是panda express,有本事做得好,有一天這些食物可以自成一類,不用托庇於任何料理之下,就好像沒有人會去泰明軒問說您的洋食是不是道地的西餐一樣,也好像我常對許多學科不曉得從何開始喜歡在結尾冠以"科學"兩字感到多餘一樣。

美國許多有名的廚師不會稱自己的料理是法國或義大利或西班牙料理,他們只會說it's my personal cooking with the influence of xxx and OOO cooking,對於這樣的自信和体認,我覺得很欣賞,也是這個國家令我著迷的精神所在。

最後要問一下,有人吃過那個把NYT記者轟出去的廚師Marc Forgione 的菜嗎?